Seven Reasons to be New Covenant

To the fence sitters, here are seven reasons to get off the fence and boldly declare that you are a New Covenant believer.

Paul stated the reasons plainly in his letter to the Corinthians. The passage is 2 Corinthians 3. Read through it. I think you will find the seven reasons to be compelling.

  • Life — As Paul wrote, “the law kills, but the Spirit gives life.” The end of the law is death. That is the wages of sin. In the New Covenant, you receive life, Christ’s life.
  • Righteousness — The law is a ministry of condemnation. No way to feel close to God or even know that He truly loves you when you keep failing to live up to His commands. In the New, God makes you righteous in Jesus. You are accepted.
  • Eternal Security — The Old Covenant was temporary. It had a limited purpose – to show you your need for Christ. The New is eternal. Jesus’ promises and provisions last forever, which means that you are saved completely and eternally.
  • Hope — The weight of the law squeezes out all measure of hope. As the writer of Hebrews stated, apart from Christ, you live in the fearful expectation of God’s punishment . In this New Covenant, your sins have been taken away once and for all. You are forgiven. You have Jesus and He is your hope of glory.
  • Freedom — Under the law, you were in bondage to sin and death. Sin was your master, as Paul wrote. But in this New Covenant, the Spirit of Life sets you free from the law of sin and death. Where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.
  • Transformation — Self-effort keeps you stuck in the Romans 7 trap: the things I want to do, I don’t, and the things I don’t want to do, I do. But in the New Covenant you are transformed into the likeness of Christ, from glory to glory.
  • Jesus — Under law, it is all about you and your ability to live up to the standards. In the New, Jesus lives His life through you. He was the One who was revealed when the curtain in the temple was torn. He is God’s gift to you.

It is time to get off the fence. Make the declaration: “I am a New Covenant believer!”

Please note: I reserve the right to delete comments that are offensive or off-topic.

24 thoughts on “Seven Reasons to be New Covenant

  1. Excellent article Bob! I lived most of my life under the condemnation of the law. Self-imposed guilt was a daily experience because I didn’t understand the finality of the work of Christ on my behalf nor did I realize His life in me to the extent the New Covenant teaches. Thanks for your help in bringing many to a greater understanding of this precious doctrine.

    • Neal, that self-imposed guilt is tough stuff to live with. It is certainly not a burden God called us to carry through life. In comparison, there is nothing like resting in the finished work of Jesus and sharing in His resurrected life. Bob

  2. Amen to that! What a way to jump off that fence and rest in His love, life and ability to save us completely. Not only can’t you rest when you’re under law, there is no rest in being double minded. Thank God he doesn’t leave us in our ignorance!

    • Hey Ben, rest is the first place God takes us in our New Covenant journey. We enter in when we fully understand Christ’s work on the cross. It is wonderful when Jesus replaces our ignorance with His truth.

  3. This blog is a great challenge! Challenges folks to make up their mind–right now, where we sit.
    Hopefully, the real message of the New Covenant is starting to reach even further. I was raised in a local church, and never heard of the “new covenant’ until I looked elsewhere. Then, God reached me, because He knew–I didn’t.
    So here’s the New Covenant, folks. What’s it gonna be? Yea or Nay?

  4. The first time I heard Bob George on the radio over 20 years ago it was like manna from heaven but I did not dare believe he was right. I thought he might be wrong, but I kept listening and I grew so joyous and I realized this was what had been missing all of my years in organized religion. I have listened to People to People , read the books, listened to the tapes, met the staff and others in the Dallas area in the past. I always wanted to move there and volunteer when I retire but so far that has not happened. I used to listen to Bob George teach when he would vist his mother in Austin and tears would stream down my face due to his words being so spirit filled. The first time I heard Amy’s testimony I cried until my tear ducts dried up. what I am trying to say is that with so much error being taught, I am thankful for this ministry and we must support it. The Body of Crist is suffering due to apostasy and a lack of knowing who they REALLY are in Christ. I am so thankful Bob Christopher was selected by the Holy Spirit and Bob George to take this ministry forward. I love you all.

  5. Hi Bob, Great article,Great Message, keep up the good work. I have recently discovered the Grace authors, Andrew Farley and Mick Mooney, already read three books of each, forth book of each are on order.(Love Micks cartoon book) Need all the reminding I can get that it is All About Grace, especially at the moment, as just before Christmas I was asked not to attend my Church anymore, reason given,that I was a disruptive influence. I had ‘only’ spoken to the lead pastor in private about my concerns, mainly that I felt I was unable to continue to be a partner(their take on membership) with the Church.
    As I considered their mix of law and grace was incorrect,and compromised the Gospel.He had often said from the front of Church that ‘we’ believe in the Tithe! I told him I did not, and asked if he would get back to me with scriptural warrant for his stance, he refused point blank, end of conversation. Two days later a phone call saying they did not want me to attend the church any more,reason as already stated. So I am now not attending church whilst I work out the correct cause of action to take,the situation is made all the more difficult by the fact that my wife still attends the church, she is welcome I am not. So I need all the reminding I can get that it is all about Grace!

    • Hi Clive- I’m sorry to hear about what happened, but am glad that He used those circumstances for your good! If you have a Facebook account, I’d suggest taking a look at Metro Bible Fellowship’s page (I believe the link is at under ‘Metro’). GREAT encouragement there as is here and you will find it a gathering place of sorts for many who don’t or can’t attend a “church”. I’d highly recommend listening to the CD series ‘Love Is’ (along with your wife if she’s open to it)that’s available through the realanswers site. I’m nearly half-way listening through it again for the third time, lol. When you know His love for you it changes your outlook on life and circumstances in ways you never thought would happen. There’s much to be thankful for in this and hopefully your wife will be encouraged by His Grace too.

    • Hey Clive, tithing is an Old Covenant/New Covenant matter. Answer first which covenant you live under, then the question of giving is answered clearly.

    • Clive, God is with you in this matter. I am saddened to hear your wife still attends a fellowship that does not welcome you. Is the pastor her husband or are you her husband?

      Keep dpending upon Jesus. He will bring you through this. Please find a group to worship and assemble with. I stayed away from any group for over 5 years since in the Asutin Texas area it was difficult to find what I needed, but I suffered greatly for doing that. I thought I could read the Word, listen to tapes, read books, etc. but it was not enough. I went through a period of very deep pain and loneliness. We must not forsake being together as believers. Most groups will not alwasy agree 100 percent on very minor issues. There will be some areas of minor disagreement unless you find a place like Metro in the Dallas area. but do not stay alone. You need the support and love from other believers on a face to face basis.

      I also want to encourage New Covenant believers not to use our freedom as an excuse not to give and to give liberally. All we have belongs to God so we need to give, give, give but be careful where you give. DO NOT give to a fellowship that does not teach the truth.

      I give to People To People, my local church and several other ministries that evangelize and help bring people to Christ. I give to places where I know the truth is being taught. Why would I suppor error with God’s money?

      May God bless and keep you always my brother. Ask People to People to recommend a church for you to attend.

      My love to you and yours.

  6. I have been trying to get a biblical answer to my objections to your teaching for years. One such attempt was to a Pastor whom I shall refer to as Pastor Chris. Maybe you can answer for him since he seems to have lost my email address. The following is our email discussion:
    Pastor Chris wrote: Dear Sharon,
    Galatians tells us it was for freedom Christ set us free. But don’t use that freedom for occasion to the flesh. The truth is we are never truly free until we are free to fail. You mentioned that you were basically lazy and needed to hear obedience taught. I would challenge you to examine your heart. Needing that, are you then serving out of fear or love? After reading your letter it sounds like fear to me. (I must or else.) This is wanting to follow the letter of the law and not the spirit of it.

    My reply: I agree that we are all free to fail, to sin or not to sin. (Is it possible that this freedom from sin occurred at the cross? I seem to think that may be the actual case. I haven’t researched that concept enough to hold it dogmatically.) Yes, I agree, too, while the choice is ours, we are admonished not to take this freedom to use for a chance to be self indulgent or to obey the lusts of the flesh instead of the Lord. So while there is freedom in the Lord, we were not set free so that we could have the dubious pleasure of failure. I believe you will agree that the actual fact is that we were made free from bondage to sin and the strength of sin is the law. What point of freeing us from sin if we stay prisoners to sin, held there by our voluntary slavery to our own fleshly desires and satan’s cruel temptations incited by the lure of lusts forbidden by the law? As we read in:
    Rom 6:11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
    Rom 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
    Rom 6:13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
    Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
    Rom 6:15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
    Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
    Rom 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
    Rom 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
    Rom 6:19 I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
    Rom 6:20 For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
    Rom 6:21 What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.
    Rom 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, (working for God) ye have your fruitt unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.

    You ask if I am living in fear? I have prayerfully considered your allegation. The Bible verse that comes to mind is that the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, in which case, I am not nearly fearful enough. The Spirit reminds me that I need to repent when I have bitterness or a lack of forgiveness in my heart, and I try to keep my focus on the Lord’s teaching as much as I can, in spite of the distractions of life on this crazy planet. I have no problem seeing God as the source of whatever remnants of love we have here on earth. I do serve Him out of love and respect, much the way I loved my Dad and yet, feared being disobedient to him, knowing punishment would be due. More than the fear of punishment from God is the fear of disappointing Him who loved me so much.

    Pastor Chris: Obedience and works are the fruit of righteousness, not the root of it. The Bible says, For God so loved that he gave…that whosoever believes will not perish, but have eternal life. Right living doesn’t produce right believing. Right believing produces right living.

    My reply: Exactly. We must believe that what Jesus taught is what He intends for us to do, not that we should dismiss all his words as an example of some higher standard that we have no hope of reaching. His words are life but only if we do what He commands. He commands us to love and forgive even as we were loved and forgiven by God. If a person doesn’t believe that God loves and has forgiven them, and also requires them to do the same, then I doubt that they will feel any need to love and forgive others.

    Pastor Chris: If salvation is based on works, where is grace? Grace is unmerited, undeserved, and unearned. If salvation is based on works, where is confidence? When is it enough? If you miss it in one point, you are guilty of all. No one loves like Christ loves the church. But when we focus on Jesus and His FINISHED work, we will do better by accident than we ever did on purpose.

    My reply: Forgiveness for sin was already granted to the world, all mankind, and paid with the sinless blood of Christ, given for us sinners, freely and unmerited, undeserved, and unearned. Now since the debt has been paid so graciously, we must grant to everyone who has sinned against us, the same forgiveness; unmerited, undeserved, and unearned. If we refuse to forgive others, neither will our heavenly Father forgive us. He will, instead, judge us with the same judgment that we judged or wanted to have inflicted on our fellowman. So is it ‘works’ to love and forgive others? If you say, ‘yes’ , then I will insist that we are saved by ‘works’. How much ‘work’ does it take to NOT have your enemies punished and NOT to get back the payment you that they owe you?

    His commands are not grievous. We are not asked to do something that is impossible. Husbands are told to love their wives as Christ loved the church and gave himself for her. In wars, many soldier’s have willingly sacrificed for their friends, willing to even give up their lives for them. If husbands loved like that, divorce rates would plummet. Whether you agree or not, I know that such love is possible but is not advocated by many modern pastors, since divorce rates within the churches today are practically the same as in the unchurched. Divorce is the fruit of this false teaching that no man can love like that. (Remember, by the fruit of teachings, you will know whether they are false or not.)

    Pastor Chris: Focusing on us and what we must do is self-centered. We are called to be Christ-centered. In Numbers, the children of Israel were snake bitten and dying. Moses raised the standard and all who looked upon were saved. Jesus said in John 3 that just as Moses raised the standard in the wilderness, so must the Son of Man be lifted up. Why? So we could look upon and be saved. If the shadow was enough, how much more the real thing? I don’t believe for a second that the preaching of Jesus in His love and grace as our finished work causes people to go out and sin it up. It makes me want to serve Him more out of love not obligation. Anyone listening to what I say week to week knows I don’t condone sin. I simply believe we have the cart in front of the horse.

    My reply: Jesus was the only acceptable sacrifice for sin. We both agree to that. And we agree: there is nothing we can add to that sacrifice. Just as the servant in Mat 18:23-35 had nothing to pay, we have nothing to pay for our sin. Notice in the parable, the king did not have the servant pay as much as he could but just graciously forgave him the entire debt when he could not pay. But when the servant refused to extend the same forgiveness to his fellow servant, the king took back his generous forgiveness and the servant was given the same judgment that he exacted from his fellow servant. There is no doubt to the meaning of the parable. Jesus tells his listeners that God will do the same to them if they do not every one forgive every man his brother’s trespasses.

    You say that you “don’t believe for a second that the preaching of Jesus in His love and grace as our finished work causes people to go out and sin it up. It makes me want to serve Him more out of love not obligation.” and that may be true of you, but preaching that love and forgiveness is not required for some would be like telling lazy kids that they don’t have to keep their rooms clean because a maid has been hired who will do it for them if they don’t, but it would be nice if they did. A few will do it out of gratitude. Not many. Maybe you are correct that more will serve Christ out of gratitude than who will serve Him in obedience. If you think about that in another way, you may see that it is more human nature to want to be able to ‘give’ God some service that isn’t required than to obey him in a humble slave attitude. Which attitude is more prideful?

    Mat 18:23-35 Therefore is the kingdom of heaven likened unto a certain king, which would take account of his servants.
    And when he had begun to reckon, one was brought unto him, which owed him ten thousand talents.
    But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made.
    The servant therefore fell down, and worshipped him, saying, Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.
    Then the lord of that servant was moved with compassion, and loosed him, and forgave him the debt.
    But the same servant went out, and found one of his fellowservants, which owed him an hundred pence: and he laid hands on him, and took him by the throat, saying, Pay me that thou owest.
    And his fellowservant fell down at his feet, and besought him, saying, Have patience with me, and I will pay thee all.
    And he would not: but went and cast him into prison, till he should pay the debt.
    So when his fellowservants saw what was done, they were very sorry, and came and told unto their lord all that was done.
    Then his lord, after that he had called him, said unto him, O thou wicked servant, I forgave thee all that debt, because thou desiredst me:
    Shouldest not thou also have had compassion on thy fellowservant, even as I had pity on thee?
    And his lord was wroth, and delivered him to the tormentors, till he should pay all that was due unto him.
    So likewise shall my heavenly Father do also unto you, if ye from your hearts forgive not every one his brother their trespasses.

    Pastor Chris: The Bible teaches in Hebrews 3-4 that our work or labor is to enter into His rest. Why did the Israelites not go into the promise land? Because of unbelief. They failed to trust in God. Focus on believing and we will have obedience. We love, because He loved us. Herein is love not that we love Him, but that He loved us. John was the closest of any of the disciples and he was the one with the greatest revelation of Jesus love for him. He called himself the disciple that Jesus loved.

    My reply: Focus on believing? The big question is: ‘Believing what?’ Reading Numbers 13-14 we see they didn’t believe that they were able in their frail human flesh to conquer the mighty armies who occupied the lands God told them to possess. Do you think God is pleased when we throw up our hands and claim to be impotent when it comes to obeying Jesus’ commands to love and forgive not only our friends but also our enemies? Can we say we ‘can do all things through Christ who strengthens me’ and yet say that it is humanly impossible to follow His commands? It is humanly possible because Jesus is ready to help us when we willingly choose to believe his words and obey him. We are told to exhort one another daily to stay on the right path, namely the path of love and forgiveness that Jesus not only taught by word but by example. We are taught of God to love one another. Jesus declares that love and forgiveness are His ways. In the New Testament He summed up the law and His ways as love for God and fellow man:

    Heb 3:10 Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways.
    Heb 3:11 So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.)
    Heb 3:12 Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.
    Heb 3:13 But exhort one another daily, while it is called To day; lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
    Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
    Heb 3:15 While it is said, To day if ye will hear his voice, harden not your hearts, as in the provocation.
    Heb 3:16 For some, when they had heard, did provoke: howbeit not all that came out of Egypt by Moses.
    Heb 3:17 But with whom was he grieved forty years? was it not with them that had sinned, whose carcases fell in the wilderness?
    Heb 3:18 And to whom sware he that they should not enter into his rest, but to them that believed not?
    Heb 3:19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.

    Hebrews is basically saying “Love and forgiveness are His ways. Believe it. Live it. Don’t get caught up in ordinances like circumcision, cleansings, meats, holy days, which just a shadow of Christ’s death.” Today, there are other outward things to occupy our hearts with. Instead of rites and rituals for us, it would probably be statues, lighting candles, requiring worship services on Sabbath Saturday or Sunday, or how long ladies’ skirts and men’s hair should be.

    Pastor Chris: Abiding in the vine is about relationship. Jesus came so we could have eternal life (John 17:3 says eternal life is knowing God and the Son.) It’s the relationship that gives place for being fruitful and bearing fruit. Jesus said apart from me you can do nothing. Yet we are not apart from Him because of what HE did on the cross and resurrection. Again our works are the fruit of relationship, not the root of it.

    Yes, I agree. Abiding in the vine is not just holding on to a few facts about Christ and why He died. It is a relationship of a master/slave until we have enough maturity and spiritual growth to be called a son. This relationship has to include obeying the Lord and not just believing what He did but also what He said for us to do. We are to abide in his word and keep it. His love has to be the way we live if it is going to bring us eternal life. It has to be the way we die to self and make him the Lord of our life. If we truly believe in having love for one another, we will be forgiving of one another even as God for Christ’s sake hath forgiven us.

    Pastor Chris: Notice that in the gospels, when Jesus is taking a hard line concerning sin, he is always speaking to hardened Jews, Pharisees, those who believed in their own efforts. He raised the bar on the Law, so that man would not trust in himself for salvation. With the helpless, his response was neither do I condemn you, go and sin no more. But no condemnation came first. Romans 8:1 backs this.

    My reply: This is another one of my pet peeves. The Pharisees didn’t believe in their own efforts of love and forgiveness. They were greedy, hypocritical, hateful murderers, slanderers, and lying thieves who stole widows’ houses, who even framed their messiah and had him murdered because they were jealous of his popularity and power. They made no effort to extend help or mercy to anyone. They were only in appearing to be religious in front of men but inside they were ravening wolves and vipers full of evil viciousness. Jesus raised the bar on the Law by reducing it to one easy yoke to bear….love and forgive as you were loved and forgiven by God.

    Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
    Who walk not after the flesh, but after the spirit. Walking after the Spirit is works, not the works of the law but the works of faith in what Jesus taught about loving and forgiving others. The Spirit is God is a spirit of mercy and love.

    Pastor Chris: The Bible warns against mixture of grace and law. He says that the working of the Spirit was through the hearing with faith. James tells us faith without works is dead, but you can’t deny faith has to come first. People today are not confident in their relationship with God. Too many see God through Moses and not Jesus. You said yourself in Hebrews 1;3 that Jesus is the exact representation of God. Moses gave the law, but grace and truth came through Jesus.

    My reply: The Bible does warn against a mixture of grace and another gospel. In Galatians, it was a mixture of grace and law; mixing the preaching of the gospel of love and forgiveness with the preaching of Jewish laws observing days, meats, rites and rituals. I don’t see how you can apply this to teaching that grace is a mixture of the grace of God toward us, and the grace we are required to show toward all mankind. The grace of the gospel is God giving of the son of God for the sin of the world and the grace of the gospel is also the mercy we are to extend toward others in response to that gift. How is that a bad mix?

    Pastor Chris: I do agree that if we believe and focus on the love relationship with Jesus we will bear fruit. From John 14-15 and James, we see that keeping the commandment is a sign of our love for Him. But keeping the commandment does not produce love, it is the result of love. Paul said test yourself and see if you be in faith. Certainly we can examine ourselves, as we should bear fruit. But at the same time John 15 shows that fruitfulness is a result of abiding in Him and that takes time and nurturing as seen in the words…you will bear fruit…more fruit…much fruit…and fruit that remains. It implies growth.

    My reply: You say ‘if we believe’ and you leave that belief restricted to what Jesus did for us and seem to put the message he taught to be immaterial to our belief. It had to be the message that God sent to us… The same message from the beginning. If love comes first, it is God’s love for us, which he wants us to show toward each other. He demonstrated that love so there could be no mistake about what he expects from us. Our love for Him comes when we realize how much He loved us. But we are required to love others when we know that we have been so loved and forgiven. Our love may not be perfect but if we walk in the light of love, the Spirit will cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

    Do you realize that Jesus’ message for his disciples to preach did not change even after his resurrection? In Matthew 28:20 for example, he told them to make disciples and to teach them to observe all things whatsoever he taught them. We know throughout his ministry, He taught love, humility, mercy and forgiveness. He didn’t teach that people had to only believe in his love, life and death to be saved. He specifically said that to hear his sayings and not do them was foolishness.
    These verses say it best:
    Gal 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.
    Further, Gal 5:13-16: For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another.
    For all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
    But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another.
    This I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh.

    Gal 5:18-25 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.
    Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
    Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
    Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.
    But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith,
    Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.
    And they that are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts.
    If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

    Pastor Chris: I respect your freedom to disagree. I am more than willing to hear you out because you were willing to hear me out through cds and this reply. I hope you hear it in the spirit offered. I encourage you not to forsake the assembling of yourself with other believers. Isolation is certainly not going to produce your desired affect and by it you are not (in action) loving your brethren as you stated is so important to you. I pray you have a wonderful Christmas season and look forward to hearing back from you soon.

    Thank you. I look forward to your reply but I will understand if you are too busy at this time of year. Enjoy your Christmas season as well.

    Pastor Chris: P.s. You said we would be judged for our works concerning salvation. Look at 1 Corinthians 3:10-15. Paul’s works were a product of grace, but look at what it says about works producing reward, not salvation. There is a difference.

    My reply: There are rewards that will be lost when believers live according to mercy, obedience to Christ, and love for one another but if the same believers unwittingly teach others another gospel, their work will be burned. False teachers will probably suffer such loss as described in 1st Corinthians:
    14 If any man’s work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward.
    15 If any man’s work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

    Pastor Chris: Also, keep things in context. The verses you quote at the bottom need to be read in reference to who is being spoken of:

    My reply: I believe I have kept those in context, but I will review them again:
    Matthew 5
    1And seeing the multitudes, he went up into a mountain: and when he was set, his disciples came unto him:
    2And he opened his mouth, and taught them, saying,

    Clearly, there, Jesus was teaching his disciples about his message and in
    Matthew 28:

    16Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them.
    17And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.
    18And Jesus came and spoke unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
    19Go ye (this would also include all disciples who will accept his call to ministry) therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
    20Teaching them (all nations, which would include us) to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you ( this is specifically what he taught his disciples on earth and those who received the message from them, carried down through the ages since) : and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

    Notice that he did not say, “teach them to accept me as Lord and Savior but especially stress that it is not their works that will save them, but only my death alone.”

    All the disciples taught that we must do the things Jesus commanded, even Paul. I believe the reason there is confusion is because we are confusing the works of the law and good works. The two are not synonymous. Some also have made the works of the flesh to be the same as the good works done by means of our bodies. They are not synonymous either. The works of the flesh are evil works done in obedience to our fleshly nature with it’s self-serving cravings and egotistical desires. The works that will bring us eternal life are patient continuance in well doing as Paul said in Romans 2:

    Are you saying that the following verses do not apply to all people, including those who call themselves ‘born-again Christians’? If so, I would respectfully suggest that you read them again:

    5But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
    6Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
    7To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
    8But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
    9Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
    10But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
    For there is no respect of persons with God.

    You see that God judges us all by our hearts and none of us are elected to salvation apart from our works. Our election to salvation is in our obedience. God has elected that those who obey will inherit eternal life. This choice to give eternal life to whosoever obeys was made before the foundation of the world. This is made possible by the application of the blood of Christ to our sin, washing it away when we repent and follow him daily. If we walk in the light as he is in the light, the blood of Christ cleanses us from all sin. He that hates his brother walks in darkness and that darkness has blinded his eyes. The works we are to do is to love and forgive one another as we have been loved and forgiven by God. When Jesus died, He paid the sin debt for all mankind, but if we don’t forgive every one his fellow man, neither will our heavenly father forgive us.

    Thank you for your reply and your thoughtful answers. I appreciate the considerable time you have spent and I hope you have not been offended by my rather blunt and tactless style.


    Sharon Green

    • Hey Sharon,
      After reading yours and Pastor Chris’ conversation, it sounded like you both just started going around in circles. I don’t know of anything else that could be added.Then again, it feels like we’re coming in at the middle of a long conversation.

      Just curious–during the course of y’all’s conversation, was there ever any mention of the dividing line of the Old and New Covenant? Were there ever any discussions on why God ushered in the New Covenant when He already had a Covenant in place to begin with? Were the precise differences between the Old and New ever outlined or discussed?

      The reason I ask, is that I noticed the going back and forth between the two. Jesus died for our sins, but God takes back the forgiveness, or doesn’t give it, when we withhold forgiveness ourselves.

      What if I forgave “Billy”, but didn’t forgive “Susie”. Would God withhold His forgiveness from me? After all, I DID forgive Billy…? The Old Covenant was as you stated, “If we don’t forgive, then God won’t forgive”, whereas the New Covenant is, “Because Jesus died, we get to forgive”

      I love the analogy you used about a lazy kid keeping his room cleaned. I’ve threatened mine, did NOT offer a maid service, and STILL their rooms were disasters LOL!

      Anyway, it sounds as if you both have said all that you needed to say, and that neither was going to persuade the other. Why do you feel this forum could do any different? If you’ve tried for years, I don’t see any change forthcoming.

      The best I could offer, is to just have some “You and God” time. I don’t know of anything else that could be said that hasn’t already been said between you and Pastor Chris. You mentioned at the start of your post I have been trying to get a biblical answer to my objections to your teaching for years.
      What is your motivation for objecting to PTP’s ministry?

      • Lisa, Thank you for your input. I didn’t mean I have been trying to discredit this organization for years, just trying to show how those doctrines are unbiblical.
        In answer to your question about forgiveness, I would say we are required to forgive as we have been forgiven by God. He forgave all your sins against him, you must extend the same mercy toward all who committed sins against you. Your goal in following Christ is to become like him. It’s a proccess that I could compare to dieting or quitting smoking. You have to be committed to the goal if you want to see results. His example of forgiveness is when he said, “Father, forgive them for they know not what they do…”.
        You are probably right as to the futileness of my attempts here. I just hope to get anyone thinking about what the message that Jesus brought that we are supposed to believe when he tells us to believe in him. Yes, his death and all the other facts of his life and other creditials are important but his message is what he wants us to heed. He said, “The words I speak unto you, they are spirit and they are life.”

      • God bless you, Lisa. You hit the nail on the head. Some folks will never allow Jesus to be enough. They are still in the Garden trying to be like God.

        PTP teaches the truth but if a person cannot give themselves to the Lord and be totally dependent upon Him they will continue trying to be perfect and I wish they would tell me how they can do that since daily we sin.

    • Hebrews 9:15 reads, “For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance–now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant.”

      So Jesus died to set us free from those sins, either He did or he didn’t. If he didn’t, then we are all still dead in our sins and have no hope under the law for the law was weak and useless because it made nothing perfect.

      the new covenant that Christ is mediator of declares that God remembers our sins and lawless acts no more. Believe it and be glad.

      • Yes, and keeping in mind the enormous debt that has been forgiven you, don’t go out and demand payment for the much smaller debt owed you by your fellowman. IOW, forgive as you have been forgiven…

        • This is all very esoterically wonderful but as you have said, Colleen, we have been given the word of reconciliation to pass on, that we should tell others to be reconciled to God. We have been given righteousness because we cannot produce perfection. As you pointed out, even Paul could only wish to do the kind of good that was required for salvation. BUT, notice that his heart was dedicated to doing this righteousness. He strived to run this race. He was all about making his body be in subjection to Christ. He didn’t just talk about making Christ Lord and master, he strived to obey Christ in all areas of his earthly, physical, fleshly life. You cannot earn salvation through works but you can and must run the race set before you and you must fight the good fight, unless you want to be a castaway (Paul’s word, not mine). Striving to make Jesus Lord of your life is work. Jesus asks, “Why do you call me lord and do not what I say?”

    • “By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins: But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool. For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before, This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them; And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin. Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; And having an high priest over the house of God; Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water. Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised)” Hebrews 10:10-23

      There is no room for our works in this description of salvation. Jesus did IT ALL! No part of scripture will ever contradict itself. God does not lie nor does He decieve. If one part says that faith, trust and belief are all you need to be redeemed, purified and sanctified that that is all you need. Jesus ONE time offering sanctified us and perfected us in Gods eyes forever. Salvation is not a revolving door of covered-uncovered-covered, etc. One remission of sins is given no more blood offerings need to be give because there is nothing left to cover. This is how we can have boldness to enter into God’s presence, Jesus blood, not our works, acts of obedience or daily rituals. Jesus blood and Jesus blood alone is what makes us pure enough for the perfect God. As to obedience I’m sure you have Romans and Paul’s battle within himself.

      “For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I. If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good. Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do. Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.” Romans 7:14-25

      From this the apostle Paul saw the Laws of God agreed with them and deeply desired to obey them yet he COULD NOT. So what is the solution?

      “There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit” Romans 8:1

      Aha some might say “walk after the Spirit”! This is far simpler than you might think.

      “But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you”
      Romans 8:9

      Once we are saved that Spirit of God dwells within us. That is how we walk in the Spirit and not in the flesh.

      “Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.  And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ’s stead, be ye reconciled to God.  For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.” 2 Corinthians 5:17-21

      All of our being a new creature, creation and new man is not from our works or obedience but solely through Jesus. He was sin for us that we might be made righteous through Jesus. Our works do not grant us righteousness.

  7. Truth indeed, but just to add that Believers shouldn’t live like lost people who are trapped in their carnal, physical world “This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye hencefoth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind” Ephesians 4;17. In other words unbelievers don’t use their minds to perceive spiritual truth. Ephesians 4;18 talks about ‘having the understanding darkened’ If you don’t renew your mind to what God has to say about You the new you, that is your born again Person, which is The Spirit of God that lives in you, you’ll automatically gravitate toward what you can see,taste,hear,smell,and feel.This darkens your understanding.The knowledge of God is critical, but it must be understood to be useful. Without understanding you can’t release the life’s thats in it.When a christian walks like an unbeliever,they get the same results-death. Believers who don’t understand and apply the knowledge of God in their lives gravitate toward carnal mindedness. Without spiritual knowledge and understanding, your mind can’t be renewed, and the life of God in your spirit can’t be released. That’s why it is of vital importance that beleivers understands spirit,soul,and body. To be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace Romans 8;6. Carnally minded doesn’t necesssarily mean “sinful” mindedness. All sin is carnal, but not all carnality is sin. Carnal mindedness is allowing your mind to be dominated by what you can see,taste,hear,smell, and feel. You are carnally minded when your thoughts centre primarily on the physical realm. If your spirit and soul agree, yu experience the life of God. Your born-again spirit is always for God because it’s already ben completely changes into His likeness and image. When your soul agrees with your spirit, thats’ two parts of your being against one. Since majority always rules, your soul and body will experience the life, victory, and powers that is in your spirit.On the other hand once your thoughts ‘soul’ is dominated by the natural realm. You cut yourself from experiencing God’s life in you when you align your soul with what you can see,taste,hear,smell,hear and feel instead of what you perceive in the Word. What’s in your spirit must flow through your soul in order to get out to your body and the physical world around it.

  8. Thanks Jahlyn for sharing: “This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye hencefoth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind” Ephesians 4;17.

    I find that this summarizes the singluraity of the message of the New Covenant that PTP strives to communicate.

    I am really enjoying Bob George’s birthday present to us at Again, messages pointing everyone for their “problems of the heart” back to the Bible, and discovering the singular message: Jesus.

    One of the wonderful illustrations of the many that Bob Gerorge has shared, was one about the word “pride”. What is the letter found in the middle? “I”. Bob Christopher picks up on this in his presentation this Sunday March 11th, and shares that the only power is His.

    I recently noted that the a nearby hotel also has a big flashy sign “CASINO”, and isn’t it interesting that within this word is the word “sin”. Makes it easy for me to point out to my kids that the purpose of money is not to gamble for the purpose of self. And finally, what is the letter found in the middle of the word “sin”? There it is again – “I”.

    Somewhere along the way, I learned that a definition of the word “sin” is “not for God’s purpose.” In other words there is to be a sacredness about everything including our bodies, the race and the family we have been born into, sex, communication, food, nature, art, music and everything else we have been blessed with.

    So the transformation for me is to recognize that, indeed, the “heavens declare God’s righteousness.” Indeed, physically and righteously I am, for all intents and purposes, reduced to zero in comparison. God’s righteousness being of a magnatitude that methphorically is declared by the immensity of the heavens humbles me.

    The resulting transformation in me by this knowledge from His Word, is that I rest in knowing that righteousness exists because of Him.

    I am not living in His freedom if I am not trusting and resting in this Truth. As noble as it might sound telling yourself or someone else, “You should forgive”, “You should give graciously with joy”, “You should observe Lent”, or any other “You should” excepting, “You should abide and trust in Him”, there is still the contimination of the “vanity of my mind”, and that any of what I do that might be “good” is by my power, when the Truth is, it can only be of Him. I am transformed to die to self and materialism, and get up born-again to walk through this life calling upon His power to do all of this.

    • Myles, I don’t see how you can abide and trust in Christ or die to self and materialism without actually doing it. It is somewhat like ‘having your cake and eating it, too.’ Why do so many Christians speak in such ‘double talk’? God’s righteousness exists in reality. Our human righteousness is flawed and our perfect righteousness exists by faith. We do our best to follow Christ and then we can believe in his word that tells us that if (conditional) we walk in the light as he is in the light, his blood will cleanse us from all unrighteousness. Does anyone know what walking in the light means? Not just talking the talk but walking the walk. Walking in love and forgiveness toward others.

      • Walking in the light means being made alive in Christ. That is salvation, going from a state of being spiritually dead to being spiritually alive.

        John 8:12 When Jesus spoke again to the people, he said,”I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will NEVER WALK IN DARKNESS, but will have the LIGHT OF LIFE.

        That is why if you are saved, have His life living in you, then you are walking in the light. If you do not have His life living in you, then you are walking in darkness, you are still spiritually dead.

        Do not fall into the error of so many believing that walking in the darkness means sinning, and that walking in the light means not sinning.

        If walking in the light meant not sinning, then why does 1John 1:7 say that if we walk in the light the blood of Jesus purifies us from all sin?

        Why would we need to be purified from all sin if we are not sinning?

        And remember, Jesus said that whoever follows him will NEVER walk in darkness. If walking in darkness meant sinning, then nobody is following him because we all sin.

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